5r100 support?

dbunyip · Newbie Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 7

Is there an estimated time for the 5r100 transmission support? I have 2 of them on the shop floor and would like to put one behind my 7.3 powerstroke. Do you make a different tcu for each transmission or is it just software changes to support different ones?

jballenger · Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject:

We technically support the 5R110 Ford Torqshift transmission (used behind the Powerstroke diesel applications) presently. As is the case with the Allison 1000 transmission however, it currently takes one of our engineers several days to tune these applications. For these reasons we have not yet released these products to the general public as they would be difficult at best even for an experienced installer/tuner.

We are working to make these transmissions controllable with far less tuning parameters and to make them easy enough to tune for a skilled installer. We do not have an ETA at this time for an official release of our product which will support the Allison 1000 and Ford 5R110.

With respect to the controller, we just change the software/firmware for each transmission, the physical controller is the same for all current applications.
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James Ballenger
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dbunyip · Newbie Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 7

now when you say difficult to tune, are you refering to getting the shifting to work optimally or is there problems in getting it to work at all? I remember reading someplace about an allison/cummins combo that if was put in neutral while moving and it locked all the clutches. I don't remember where i read that and don't know what controler was being used, but is was a beta tester. Are these the kind of problems I'm facing?

So is the firmware user changable if i find a better soultion down the road or is that set at the factory?

jballenger · Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject:

Our other transmissions come with the shift soleniod logic pre-programmed and all you need to manipulate is your shift points, line pressure and torque converter lockup points.

For the 5R110, the solenoid setup varies by application. Unlike traditional designs, the 5R110 has no accumulators or mechanical methods for shift timing and smoothing so the electronics must do all of this. The result is that a skilled engineer must drive the vehicle extensively, checking for proper shift timing and clutch engagement/disengagement through datalogging.

If we simply delivered a tune to you, it would likely shift but it would potentially be unnacceptably harsh under certain conditions and may exhibit dangerous clutch slipping during shift events until properly tuned. The very large number of variables and ability to determine through testing what shifts exhibit problems prevent even a skilled tuner from being able to install this transmission properly. You may not even realize that the clutches are slipping as it is sometimes a condition you would not "feel" while driving, you would only know by looking at the datalogs.
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James Ballenger
Forum Administrator

dbunyip · Newbie Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 7

So if I get all the hardware and wiring installed, where is the closest place to get the controller tuned and what would be the approx cost of having this done. If it’s all mostly adjusted through the data log could I send you data logs and make adjustments over the net? My next worry is that if it is this sensitive to what motor its behind, am I going to be starting from scratch every time I make a change to my motor?

dbunyip · Newbie Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 7

So if I get all the hardware and wiring installed, where is the closest place to get the controller tuned and what would be the approx cost of having this done. If it’s all mostly adjusted through the data log could I send you data logs and make adjustments over the net? My next worry is that if it is this sensitive to what motor its behind, am I going to be starting from scratch every time I make a change to my motor?

Russ · PCS Employee Joined: May 12, 2004 Posts: 286

Right now our engineers are the only ones who can tune the 5R110. We are not releasing the 5R110 support until we come up with a better software interface to make the tuning easier to understand. The 5R110 is a fragile transmission and can easily be damaged by incorrect calibration. It's also very sensitive to input power, so it is possible you will have to adjust the transmission solenoid timing when making significant changes to the power output of the engine.

Russ

dbunyip · Newbie Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 7

So even if I ship you my truck it can't be done, am I understanding this correct?

Russ · PCS Employee Joined: May 12, 2004 Posts: 286

No, Due to liability issues we do not tune customer's vehicles. The tuning can be done by someone who fully understands the transmission and how the electronics work. However will recommend waiting until we have time to refine the software and train select dealers on tuning Clutch-to-Clutch style transmission.

Russ

dbunyip · Newbie Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 7

what can I do to speed up the process? I have the hardware, you have the software but you wont let me have it... its frustrating. You say it impossible for me to make it work. Then you tell me you can do it but you wont, cause it might break. How do you train people if you don't have any to work on?

Russ · PCS Employee Joined: May 12, 2004 Posts: 286

You have to understand that we can't sell a controller for $850 then spend 20-30 hours on the phone trying to support it. We never said it was impossible just that it is extremely difficult for customers to grasp the controls. The 5R110 is not like the older transmissions. It is required that you understand exactly what is going on inside the transmission. It would be like trying to tune a fuel injected engine and not understand how fuel injection works.

We have given several of these to customers that have experience tuning either other types of transmissions or tuning engine management systems. Unfortunatly none of the customers we have given it to fully understand how the solenoids control releasing and applying clutches during a shift. Thats not to say some customers don't have the knowledge to do the calibration. Just that we have know way of knowing your understanding of the transmission.

Our plan was not to try to train people on tuning the controller in its current form. Our plan was to redesign the controls and software so that there are less adjustments a customer needs to make to get it right.

I apologize for your frustration but we do not want to release a product that is not 100% what a customer expects. When we have time to redesign the software we will release the support for the 5R110. Thank You.

Russ

dbunyip · Newbie Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 7

Are you any closer to getting the new software done?

Russ · PCS Employee Joined: May 12, 2004 Posts: 286

The 5R110 is supported in our latest software. As discussed before the tuning is still more difficult than a normal transmission.

Russ

BlueOvalRacing · Newbie Joined: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 1

Hi, I just wanted to check in to see if you have made any progress with the 5R110 controller. I have a few customers that would be interested in doing this swap into their 4R100 driven trucks.

SickFord · Newbie Joined: Feb 12, 2008 Posts: 4